Curse

Brian the Gladiator · Feb 12, 2008, 11:24 PM // 23:24

The Mesmer is by far the best PvE primarily because of one elite skill and the recent skill balance.

The elite skill, if you didn't guess it, is [skill]signet of illusions[/skill]

What is really great about this elite is you can put all of your attributes in Illusion and Fast Casting and then proceed to use any skill you want with it speced at 16. If you don't see how this could be useful, then just wait!

Another function of this skill that most players don't realise is its use with PvE Only skills such as Pain Inverter, Great Dwarf Weapon, Alcar's Alchemical Acid, ect. These skills actually do upgrade when used in combination with Sig of Illusions. The functionality of the skill will place a PvE rank of 11 (1 more than maximum rank) on the skill. This means that, if using sig of illusions, your ranks are more or less meaningless and the skills associated to them are always going to be powerful.

The second reason why Mesmer's are now the best PvE class in the game is because of the recent buff to the Illusion magic spells [skill=text]clumsiness[/skill] and [skill]wandering eye[/skill]. Although the description doesn't read it, they are now AoE skills and will deal damage to multiple enemies. With this said, these two skills alone can rival even an SS necro or a Fire elementalist.

[skill]clumsiness[/skill][skill]wandering eye[/skill][skill]empathy[/skill][skill]glyph of lesser energy[/skill][skill]signet of illusions[/skill] + 3 PvE skllls of your choosing = a ridiculously powerful build that is probably the most imbalanced thing ever...

I think my point is made. Have fun with it!

^^Another Reason why Guru needs to Update skill Tags^^

Faer · Feb 12, 2008, 11:35 PM // 23:35

I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to argue with you on that whole thing. The TNTF+SY! combo still trumps your Signet of Illusions when it comes to being useful in PvE. A party taking practically no damage ever is better than... Well, just about anything. On a similar note, you say Mesmers can now rival SS Necromancers and Fire Elementalists... But unless you have infinite energy to spam your skills and spells like they do, you really can't.

Sorry pal. I play Mesmer in PvE too, but I'm not going to say they are better than they are. SoI+randompveskillhereeverynowandthen is fun, but gimmicky. Mesmers are made for a pretty well defined purpose, and that isn't to try and nuke alongside the best of them.

Teh [prefession]-zorz · Feb 12, 2008, 11:41 PM // 23:41

"The second reason why Mesmer's are now the best PvE class in the game is because of the recent buff to the Illusion magic spells Clumsiness"

Increased recharge/casting time = buff???

Numa Pompilius · Feb 12, 2008, 11:42 PM // 23:42

Signet of Illusions is a mongrel, a band-aid skill invented because the Illusion line is so bad and saw so little use.

But yeah, when combined with PvE spells it becomes one of the most imbalanced skills in the game. I have it in third place, behind Ursan and Pain Inverter, in my list of the most imbalanced skill in the game.

dies like fish · Feb 13, 2008, 12:17 AM // 00:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teh [prefession]-zorz

"The second reason why Mesmer's are now the best PvE class in the game is because of the recent buff to the Illusion magic spells Clumsiness"

Increased recharge/casting time = buff???

AoE Damage....

cellardweller · Feb 13, 2008, 12:25 AM // 00:25

Or you could just leave your SoI at home and bring a leveled up character that can use the pve skills without needing a gimick.

Brian the Gladiator · Feb 13, 2008, 12:26 AM // 00:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faer

I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to argue with you on that whole thing. The TNTF+SY! combo still trumps your Signet of Illusions when it comes to being useful in PvE. A party taking practically no damage ever is better than... Well, just about anything. On a similar note, you say Mesmers can now rival SS Necromancers and Fire Elementalists... But unless you have infinite energy to spam your skills and spells like they do, you really can't.

Sorry pal. I play Mesmer in PvE too, but I'm not going to say they are better than they are. SoI+randompveskillhereeverynowandthen is fun, but gimmicky. Mesmers are made for a pretty well defined purpose, and that isn't to try and nuke alongside the best of them.

Ummm... yea mesmers are the best class in the game for pve and pvp. I'm pretty sure u are wrong for the simple fact that clumsiness deals 100 AoE damage every ten seconds. Reduce that to five seconds when you add Wandering Eye. If you can't keep your energy up with GoLE, then add Power Drain. If you are still having trouble, then /uninstall.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cellardweller

Or you could just leave your SoI at home and bring a leveled up character that can use the pve skills without needing a gimick.

I'm generally a PvPer and the thing we hate the most is the grind. I don't want to sit there and farm to get rank 9 in every single title. Who wants to do that??? anyone??? *chirp chirp, chirp chirp* I didn't think so.

PvE skills are not the only reason why Sig of Illusions is so, gosh darn, powerful either... Does anyone feel like fast casting fire magic nukes all day long using: [skill]signet of illusions[/skill][skill]arcane echo[/skill][skill]meteor shower[/skill][skill]glyph of lesser energy[/skill][skill]fire attunement[/skill]

Heck, the damage and versatility of this build outdoes any Ele nuker 10x. The point of using skills like these is to utilize the under-utilized attribute of fast casting.
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ______________

If you ever want to try a 1v1 (no healing allowed)... Try this build to really frustrate people

[skill]fragility[/skill][skill]auspicious incantation[/skill][skill]conjure nightmare[/skill][skill]signet of illusions[/skill][skill]shell shock[/skill][skill]immolate[/skill][skill]steam[/skill][skill]enervating charge[/skill]

You can't see me · Feb 13, 2008, 12:50 AM // 00:50

SoI was the piss poor attempt of Arenanet trying to make the mesmer a useful PvE class aside from takign down powerful bosses that could be taken down equally by an anti-caster ranger.

SoI allows you to use any skill line with effectivity, regardless of attributes. It's become that a lot of mesmers chain SoI with other PvE skills. It shouldn't have to be that way. Mesmers should be able to use their own skills, NOT PVE SKILLS to be effective in more than one area of play. SoI builds on the rise is proof enough that the mesmer's own skill line could use a look.

cellardweller · Feb 13, 2008, 01:07 AM // 01:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian the Gladiator

I'm generally a PvPer and the thing we hate the most is the grind. I don't want to sit there and farm to get rank 9 in every single title. Who wants to do that??? anyone??? *chirp chirp, chirp chirp* I didn't think so.

When Discussing a "the best class" a character without pve ranks is about as relevant as a a character that hasn't done their 15 att quests or is still < L20. Saying a SoI is the best PvE elite because you don't want to get ranks is like me saying touch rangers are the best build because I like to eat sandwiches while playing and I've only got my little finger free to hit the 1 & 2 keys.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian the Gladiator

PvE skills are not the only reason why Sig of Illusions is so, gosh darn, powerful either... Does anyone feel like fast casting fire magic nukes all day long using: [skill]signet of illusions[/skill][skill]arcane echo[/skill][skill]meteor shower[/skill][skill]glyph of lesser energy[/skill][skill]fire attunement[/skill]

Heck, the damage and versatility of this build outdoes any Ele nuker 10x. The point of using skills like these is to utilize the under-utilized attribute of fast casting.

E/Me using mindbender will leave you in the dust because they can use a real elite skill.

Cowboy Nastyman · Feb 13, 2008, 01:30 AM // 01:30

sig illusions at 16 illusion actually is equal to rank 11 in a title track, one higher than can normally be done even with grind

Div · Feb 13, 2008, 01:36 AM // 01:36

The problem is that Mesmers are simply not designed to handle the increasingly large mobs. They are however, extremely powerful in terms of shutting down key targets (bosses, monks, etc.). Having a mesmer means trading away party defense (paragons) or AoE damage (eles, necros). With how the mobs are set up right now, it greatly favors having AoE damage over precise shutdown. It's the way PvE is designed that hurts mesmers, not necessarily the skills themselves.

For example, in an ideal situation where you fight similar numbers of monsters to your party with good AI, you'd want a water ele for mobility shutdown over the another fire ele (you'll probably already have some). However, as the monster count increases, say from 6 to 10, the effectiveness of the water ele goes down and that of the fire ele goes up. This is because the water ele can only snare 3 out of 10 (30%) as opposed to 3 out of 6 (50%), while the fire ele can do 100 damage/timeunit to 10 targets (1000 damage/timeunit) compared to to 6 targets (600 damage/timeunit).

You can't see me · Feb 13, 2008, 01:44 AM // 01:44

I never said the skills were nescasarrily wrong. The intent of looking at them would be to allow the mesmer to function smoother in PvE the way it is currently set up. Changing PvE would be too monumental an update to even consider for Anet.

draxynnic · Feb 13, 2008, 02:02 AM // 02:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

Signet of Illusions is a mongrel, a band-aid skill invented because the Illusion line is so bad and saw so little use.

But yeah, when combined with PvE spells it becomes one of the most imbalanced skills in the game. I have it in third place, behind Ursan and Pain Inverter, in my list of the most imbalanced skill in the game.

I thought of it as an attempt to make recasting spells stolen through use of Arcane Thievery, Inspired Hex and so on actually a viable strategy.

You can't see me · Feb 13, 2008, 02:51 AM // 02:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by draxynnic

I thought of it as an attempt to make recasting spells stolen through use of Arcane Thievery, Inspired Hex and so on actually a viable strategy.

It could be used like that, but seriously, in most situations, that will not be worth your elite.

SoI is garbage IMO.

draxynnic · Feb 13, 2008, 02:53 AM // 02:53

Hence the word 'attempt'.

It can be a lot of fun, but it's not exactly what you'd call a serious build.

In the current game, SoI is useful for PvE skill abuse (I've been using it on Asura summons and Echoed Assassin Support myself) but a) that's not being a Mesmer, and b) once your titles have reached the point where you need to go into Hard Mode, your titles will probably be high enough that the gain from SoI isn't worth the elite slot or the effort to get your Illusion attribute that high.

You can't see me · Feb 13, 2008, 02:55 AM // 02:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by draxynnic

Hence the word 'attempt'.

It can be a lot of fun, but it's not exactly what you'd call a serious build.

Then we agree.

That's nice.

xDusT II · Feb 13, 2008, 04:23 AM // 04:23

I'm pretty sure Clumsiness doesn't do AoE damage.

To add on to this, trying to make a mesmer a damage dealing class is pretty futile. Most raw damage comes as an incidental (But nonetheless useful) side effect from a skill being used for a different function, such as your shatters and HEV's. You can argue that a mesmer can be used the other way round, and it's very plausible with skills such as Wandering Eye, Empathy (And to a lesser extent Backfire) and Cry of Pain, which are all good skills. It's just that a mesmer can't outclass or hold any advantage over, say, a Fire Elementalist, whose skills main purpose is to do damage.

If you ask me, Mesmer excel or at least play favourably in two niche roles. Shutdown and debuffs. Both of which aren't tremendously useful or necessary for PvE success. As people have said you can sit your mesmer on a few annoying targets to remove or limit then from the game while your party wipes everything else, or you can have your mesmer removing key hexes or enchantments (In later game areas you start seeing more Diversions, Soul Leech, Backfire, Empathy and other hexes/enchantments that actually require attention). While both roles can inflict raw damage while performing these roles, as well as preventing damage from interrupts and removals, it's simply not on the same scale or multitude as what other classes can achieve.

itsvictor · Feb 13, 2008, 04:28 AM // 04:28

SoI was the bandaid that mesmer's needed in PvE, now try convincing the entire GW population that mesmers are better. You can't break the people that are narrow minded and/or do not visit these forums. Seriously, it's PvE, so easy a caveman can do it at times.

LightningHell · Feb 13, 2008, 07:40 AM // 07:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian the Gladiator

PvE skills are not the only reason why Sig of Illusions is so, gosh darn, powerful either... Does anyone feel like fast casting fire magic nukes all day long using: [skill]signet of illusions[/skill][skill]arcane echo[/skill][skill]meteor shower[/skill][skill]glyph of lesser energy[/skill][skill]fire attunement[/skill]

Heck, the damage and versatility of this build outdoes any Ele nuker 10x. The point of using skills like these is to utilize the under-utilized attribute of fast casting.

Uh...

Meteor Shower isn't leet damage last time I checked...

Longasc · Feb 13, 2008, 08:02 AM // 08:02

The OP is exaggerating quite a lot, and claims X being the best PvE/PvP class are a bit "meh" anyways.

But he has a point, definitely.

Clumsiness (now AoE, yes, test it! It is just misleadingly worded in the skill description), Wandering Eye (now twice as strong, same numbers as Clumsiness), Empathy (single-target SS, stronger) are now very strong hexes - comboed with Signet of Illusions you can use all of them together. Cry of Pain is also very strong. And it is all completely armor-ignoring damage, very useful in HM. Mesmers also have Epidemic by default, which can be very useful in an organized team.

While this kind of mesmer gameplay is rather new and quite un-mesmerlike, it makes them much more viable in PvE gameplay.

They just lack Soul Reaping and Energy Management is a bit tricky for ultra hex heavy builds, but SoI also works on Power Drain and stuff like that. The curses line has still more utility, too. But comparing Mesmers to Necros shows that they really got buffed for PvE.

Mesmers have been shunned for too long, and this will probably not stop. But they got serious buffs in form of many area effect spells/hexes and SoI and are now severely underrated. They are much better by now in PvE.

ANet should update the wording of Clumsiness, it is confusing and I had to test it to see that it is an AoE hex by now. The skill description is misleading.